rhetoric sans pareil

May 2, 2008

Refutation: The Argument from Inferred Design

The Argument:

  1. Many things that look designed do so because they are designed.
  2. From 1, it can reasonably be inferred that everything that looks designed does so because it is designed.
  3. The universe looks designed.
  4. From 2 and 3, the universe has a desinger.

This is the basic format of the argument. It can be fleshed out in various ways. Here’s one I came across earlier.

Suppose you came upon a deserted island and found “S.O.S.” written in the sand on the beach. You would not think the wind or the waves had written it by mere chance but that someone had been there, someone intelligent enough to design and write the message. If you found a stone hut on the island with windows, doors, and a fireplace, you would not think a hurricane had piled up the stones that way by chance. You immediately infer a designer when you see design.

There’s a few things wrong with this argument.

First Refutation: Logical Fallacy

  1. Some things that look designed do not have a designer.
  2. From 1, it is not the case that everything that looks designed has a designer.
  3. From 2, the second premise of the argument from inferred design fails.

Snowflakes look like they’re designed – they’re extremely complex. But they are formed merely through the condensation of water vapor at very low temperatures. They have no designer.

Therefore, not everything that looks designed had a designer.

Second Refutation: Objective Evidence

  1. Many things that look designed can be observed during the process of their creation processes.
  2. Many of those creation proccesses will involve a designer.
  3. Many of those creation processes will not involve a designer.
  4. From 3, the second premise of the argument from inferred design fails.

We know that buildings have builders because we can go to a construction yard and see the building as it is being constructed.

We know that the letters written on the sand had a writer because we can go to the beach and see people writing in the sand with sticks.

We know that the changes a species makes over time that increases it’s fitness to its environment occur without a designer because we can set up a laboratory environment and observe these changes taking place without a designer. (Reference: Observed Instances of Speciation, Some More Observed Speciation Events)

Therefore, not everything that looks designed had a designer.

Third Refutation: Infinite Improbability

  1. Assume the Argument from Inferred Design to be true
  2. All designers look designed
  3. All designers are more improbable than their designs
  4. From 1 and 2, there is an infinte regress that must be terminated
  5. From 3 and 4, the termination point of that regress must be infinitely improbable
  6. From 5, this termination point would be impossible
  7. Therefore, the Argument from Inferred Design must be false.

This one spells it out pretty nicely. Let’s step through it.

My coffee mug looks designed, so it must have had a designer! That designer was a factory production line, which is more improbable than the mug.

A factory production line looks designed, so it must have had a designer! The designer was a team of human beings, which is more improbable than the production line.

Human beings look designed, so they must have had a designer! That designer was God, which is more improbable than humans.

God is the termination point of this regress, because nothing can be more improbable than God becuase God is Infinitely Improbable.

Since God is Infinitely Improbable, He is impossible and does not exist.

Therefore, the original premise of the argument is false.

Alternative Explanation for Apparent Design

  1. Things that look designed are improbable
  2. From 1, things that look designed must have a cause that make them more probable
  3. From the Refutations of the Argument from Inferred Design, the cause of something that looks designed may or may not have been a designer
  4. Designers look designed
  5. Designers are more improbable than the things they design
  6. From 2, 3, 4 and 5, it follows that any chain of designers that design designers must terminate in a cause that is not itself a designer

Things that look designed may or may not have a designer – but designers look designed too. And designers are more improbable than the things they design.

It is possible that a designer can design something that is itself a designer – but if this only increases the improbability the further back you go.

So to solve the problem of the improbability of apparent design, it must be possible for things that look designed to have a cause that is less improbable than themselves. Therefore it must be possible for things that look designed to not have a designer.

It follows that it must be possible for things which are designers not to have a cause that is not itself a designer.

It follows that the ultimate cause of apparent design and designers must itself be less improbable than apparent design and designers.

It follows that the ultimate cause of apparent design and designers cannot have been a designer itself.

If God exists, He must be a desinger.

If God exists, He must be the ultimate cause of apparent design.

From the last three statements, God cannot exist.

24 Comments »

  1. Buildings prove there was a builder. Creation proves a Creator. Your conscience proves you are guilty? Want me to prove it? See needGod.com

    Comment by Justin — May 2, 2008 @ 3:46 am

  2. Justin – we’ve been here already. You’re clearly too closed minded to have a discussion based on wild and wacky stuff like ‘evidence’ or ‘logic’.

    Have a nice afterlife.

    Comment by Ubiquitous Che — May 2, 2008 @ 3:50 am

  3. The creation around you is the evidence. You are suppressing that truth. Why? Because if you admit their is a Creator, what will happen to a guilty person like you (and me)? You can give up suppressing that truth. Jesus Christ has come to pay the penalty for sin. Repent and believe (trust).

    Comment by Justin — May 2, 2008 @ 4:02 am

  4. I dealt with this in the post above, Justin. If you’re going to argue with me, respond to the argument. If you can’t respond to the argument then why are you posting here?

    Creation is evidence – but of the absence of God, not his presence. Snoflakes have no creator, and neither do you or I.

    Jesus Christ was a mortal philosopher of morality for whom I have very high regard – but the adulant celebration of the account of Christ being tortured to death strikes me as being in the poorest of taste.

    Could you stop trying to ’save’ me? I appreciate the sentiment, but it’s like having a slavering puppy humping my leg. Cut it out.

    Comment by Ubiquitous Che — May 2, 2008 @ 4:13 am

  5. Third Refutation: Infinite Improbability

    1. Assume the Argument from Inferred Design to be true
    2. All designers look designed
    3. All designers are more improbable than their designs
    4. From 1 and 2, there is an infinte regress that must be terminated
    5. From 3 and 4, the termination point of that regress must be infinitely improbable
    6. From 5, this termination point would be impossible
    7. Therefore, the Argument from Inferred Design must be false.

    There’s a problem in this reasoning. You take for granted that an infinite regress is a bad thing. This seems to be a common argument among philosopher, but thus far none of them has managed to explain exactly what is the problem with an infinite regress.

    There is another problem: Even if the improbability of every designer is greater than that of the previous, it does not follow that the improbability becomes infinite. For example, the following sequence: 0, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5, …, (n-1)/n, … Every term is larger than the next one and the sequence is still bounded. (It is trivial to chance the limit to be any desired number.)

    Likewise, that something is infinitely improbable does not imply that is is impossible. Consider, for example, the interval [0, 1] on the real line. Select a (truly) random number from the interval. The probability of selecting any one number, like 1/pi, is 0. Yet, some number is selected.

    On another point, that snowflakes are not designed is a useless argument against inferred design, because one who believes in inferred designe can just say that you proved that snowflakes are, in fact, designed. Reductio ad absurdum requires that one reaches something that is in contradiction with the original thesis; preferably in contradiction from the point of view of the opponent, if you are trying to show that a set of beliefs are inconsistent.

    Comment by Tommi — May 2, 2008 @ 6:16 am

  6. Obviously there’s no divine “creator”. Life is a giant cult.

    The weird thing is the way anti-creationist people engage in logical arguments which alienate creationists and then pat themselves on the back for being so smart. “Brights” and such aligned anti-creationists may be right about God’s non-existence, but it strikes me as a self-celebratory notion.

    I’m really just wondering who is going to be convinced of God’s non-existence by these logical arguments.

    Comment by wizardsmoke — May 4, 2008 @ 10:56 pm

  7. U.E. You cannot try to use logic without believing in God. See proofthatGodexists.org

    Comment by Justin — May 5, 2008 @ 3:50 am

  8. Justin: It’s impressive how your faith can prevent you from committing sin.

    Others:

    I’m really, really slack. Really sorry. I’ll get around to responding to my own threads soon, I promise.

    Comment by Ubiquitous Che — May 5, 2008 @ 3:53 am

  9. I think you misunderstand. I am not saying that you must believe in God’s existence by faith alone. I am saying you are trying to make a point through logic, but the very fact that logic exists helps prove God’s existence. Again, see proofthatGodexists.org for an explanation.

    Comment by Justin — May 5, 2008 @ 4:50 am

  10. Oh, I understand you Justin. You believe in God so unquestioningly that you feel any argument against the existence of God must, by its very nature, be incorrect. You’re a doubleplusgood crimestopping duckspeaker.

    Comment by Ubiquitous Che — May 5, 2008 @ 4:55 am

  11. I could not convince you that a friend of your does not exist because you know them. I know God, however, I do not expect you to accept that as proof. Therefore, I point out the obvious. Creation proves a Creator. You can believe whatever you want, but it is foolish to deny God’s existence.

    Comment by Justin — May 5, 2008 @ 7:54 pm

  12. Justin: It is exactly as foolish to deny the Christian God as it is to deny any other creator. These include, but are not limited to: The world being a virtual reality run by something, whatever mythology or religion you happen to know (these all are roughly as reasonable), or random chance. All are approximately equally credible creators. Then there’s the option of the universe never being created; that it has always been, but has just changed shape along the way.

    Comment by Tommi — May 6, 2008 @ 5:35 am

  13. Great thinking Tommi. Creation proves a Creator. If you want to know his attributes, we need logic. He must be artistic, huge, ect. We have a conscience so he must care about right and wrong. Do you consider yourself to be a good person. Hypothetical question: Would you be good enough to get to heaven? Check out http://www.livingwaters.com/good

    Comment by Justin — May 6, 2008 @ 6:25 am

  14. Justin, the world is often simply how you perceive it. You can color it with any deity or belief of your choosing and it seems equally divine or real.

    I offer you this illustrative parable quoted on my blog:

    Once a man held a huge banquet with a thousand guests. When someone presented a gift of fish and fowl, the host said appreciatively, “Heaven is generous to the people indeed, planting cereals and creating fish and fowl for our use.” The huge crowd of guests echoed this sentiment.

    Then a youth about twelve years old, who had been sitting in the most remote corner of the banquet hall, now came forward and said to the host, “It is not as you say, sir. All beings in the universe are living creatures on a par with us. No species is higher or lower in rank than another, it’s just that they control each other by differences in their intelligence and power; they eat each other, but that does not mean they were produced for each other. People take what they can eat and eat it, but does that mean that heaven produced that for people? If so, then since mosquitoes bite skin and tigers and wolves eat flesh, does that not mean that heaven made humans for the mosquitoes and created flesh for tigers and wolves?”

    Comment by wizardsmoke — May 6, 2008 @ 6:47 am

  15. Justin, you confused me. I told that the existence of something does not imply creation, and hence not a creator. Even if there is a creator, there is no way of knowing what kind of creator it is; it may have nothing to do with Christianity, for example.

    Comment by Tommi — May 6, 2008 @ 2:13 pm

  16. wizardsmoke – it takes a lot of creativity to deny the obvious. Creation proves the Creator.

    Comment by Justin — May 7, 2008 @ 2:32 am

  17. it takes a lot of creativity to deny the obvious

    Sure, but this is objective and applies to you as much as anybody. You simply assume that you have a monopoly on “the obvious”. You think your view is right because you were born into it.

    You need to grow up spiritually. You can’t get into heaven as long as you have such a closed-minded attitude. Sure, it’s good to stick to one belief-structure. But yours is not the only one.

    Comment by wizardsmoke — May 7, 2008 @ 6:45 am

  18. If Christianity is correct, which it is, it is wise to stick to it.

    Comment by Justin — May 8, 2008 @ 6:39 am

  19. Justin,
    If Islam is correct, which it may be, it is wise to stick with it.
    If Christianity is correct, which it may be, it is wise to stick with it.
    If Buddhis, is correct, which it may be, it is wise to stick with it.

    And, if it just so happens that no religion/mythology happens to be correct, what is wise to do is subjective. It might be that, anyway.

    Comment by Tommi — May 8, 2008 @ 10:51 am

  20. Hey Ubiquitous…

    I know it’s been awhile since you posted this, but I still feel I should respond.

    I see some problems with your responses. Tommi did a good job pointing out the problem with your third refutation…and I think the main problem is assuming the God would be an infinite regression. If our universe is finite, and God is the Creator, then He doesn’t have to be an infinite regression. Also, something Tommi didn’t bring up which applies to the third refutation and your alternative explanation…how can the regression argument apply only to designers, but not to causes? Your point is to say that the first cause cannot be a disigner because designers are more improbably than designs…but isn’t it also true that causes are more improbable than effects? My grandmother is more improbable than her grandchildren (and she did not design us)…there is only one of her, but 7 grandchildren. I’m not sure of your stance on the origin of the universe, but it doesn’t really matter. If you think the universe is caused (unitelligently), then even that first cause would be infinitely improbable (by your reasoning) because it would have to be the single cause of everything else. And, if you think the universe is uncaused (eternal, oscillating, or whatever), then the regression of causes and effects goes back infinitely…again producing an infinite regression. But, again, as Tommi pointed out, what is so wrong with an infinite regression? There are an infinite amount of real numbers between 0 and 1, so choosing just one is infinitely improbable…but one will be selected.

    As for your first two refutations…both are begging the question. You assert to disprove. In 1 you use the example of a snowflake to say that something can look designed without a designer, but the very premise you are trying to refute would claim that the snowflake is designed…that it looks the way it does because God produced it (the methods are not important at this point). You simply assert that it is not designed (even though an “assembly line” of processes are required to produce a snowflake).

    In 2 you commit the same fallacy. You tell of labratory experiments that observe changes with no designer…but this is an assertion. Just because the process that produces the change is observed to be “natural” does not mean that it is not possible that God designed the process or presently controls the process. Again, there is not just the origin of the resulting species to examine, but the origin of the process (or assembly line) that produced the organism.

    In both of these cases you asserted that no designer exists but provided no proof.

    Comment by cthoward — June 9, 2008 @ 4:08 pm

  21. Hey Ubiquitous,
    I see you’ve gotten a lot of stuff on here about “accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior.” Though I’m a Christian myself, I am in full agreement with you that our repeatedly shrieking this at you is not going to get anything done, so please allow me to apologize for the conduct of some of my brethren for that.

    The one thing I wanted to say was just that I think you need to find a better example of your point than a snowflake. As you stated, a snowflake is a very complex (and beautiful) pattern which is clearly not designed. Patterns obviously do not have to be designed, rocks falling off cliffs or animals pissing in the snow can create great patterns with no design intended. However, the thing about the uinverse is it isn’t strictly a matter of having a pattern or structure, it’s that the universe works. The universe, from the tiniest atoms to the most enormous star systems, is full of vast, moving, operating, complex bodies that all end up working together. A snowflake is just a pretty pattern etched into crystalized water.

    Obviously what you say isn’t going to change my mind and what I say isn’t going to change yours, so there’s no need for any silly long discussions (they’d just be a waste of time anyways.) I’m just saying that if you want to make your point, I suggest using a better example than a snowflake.

    Comment by dswerling — June 11, 2008 @ 1:35 am

  22. Responding to Atheists – A Collection of Posts & Comments

    http://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/responding-to-atheists-a-collection-of-posts-comments/

    Comment by Rhythm8 — July 1, 2008 @ 10:26 am

  23. You have addressed the issue. But, we could go round in circles with this forever.

    Snowflakes look like they’re designed – they’re extremely complex. But they are formed merely through the condensation of water vapor at very low temperatures. They have no designer.

    Let say I write a program to display snowflakes in a computer. While the snowflakes may appear to have not been designed, they are a product of the program that I can adjust at will. If one steps back and suggests a designer willed condensation and the rules of water vapor then once again we have a designer.

    Comment by Wayne from Jeremiah Films — July 16, 2008 @ 9:49 am

  24. A logic or a design doesn’t require a designer. Part of evolved “being” is organization. I don’t know if there was ever some unorganized primary stuff from which everything else came.

    Comment by richardcorke — September 10, 2008 @ 1:30 pm


RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a comment

Blog at WordPress.com.